Old Noob

[David_T]

Hello, Jojo and all,

I am a newbie to the fascinating world of single malts. After reading several blogs, reviews, articles, sales propaganda and posts in this forum, I purchased my first bottle, Talisker 10.
I quite like it, but am looking to build my shelf up a bit. For a companion and alternative to this one, I'd like to find something perhaps a tad less sweet, a tad more malty, and I could really do with much less pepper in the finish. The Talisker is in-your-face flavorful, and I like that, but it could be smoother in the finish. I do like a moderate amount of peat and smoke, but don't think I'd care for the peat monsters.
Also, being retired, I can't afford or justify a $200 bottle, so many of the 18-year-old lovelies are simply out of my pay grade.
Suggestions?

[Islay Peat]

I'm going to suggest something with a touch of peat and smoke, but very gentle and not particularly expensive - Bowmore 12.

[David_T]

Thanks, IP. I'll put that one on my list. Based on online reviews, Dalmore 12 and Dalwhinnie 15 are there too.
I'm going to a ceilidh next Saturday which includes a whisky tasting, so there may be a come-from-behind leader.

[opelfruit]

The Dalmore may be a bit too sweet for you if you want something less sweet that Tali 10.


Have you considered Highland Park? This has some of the maritime notes of Talisker but it's not as up-front. There is pepper on the finish but it's not as strong at all.

They do a 12yo which is ok, their 18yo is very good and retails for around £60 in the UK - it's one of the best all round whiskies you can get.

Old Pulteney is also a good one - it has that saltiness/savoury character and not too sweet. Again a 12yo and they do a 17yo (a bit sweeter but a much better dram than the 12) - the 17yo tops out at around £60 a bottle in the UK too.


The 12yo's are both good starting points.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by opelfruit

Old Pulteney is also a good one - it has that saltiness/savoury character and not too sweet. Again a 12yo and they do a 17yo (a bit sweeter but a much better dram than the 12) - the 17yo tops out at around £60 a bottle in the UK too.


The 12yo's are both good starting points.

My one experience with Old Pulteney 12 last fall when I was looking for something a bit more affordable. While it seemed not so enjoyable at the time I suppose it's time to try it again as well.

[opelfruit]

It's ok, a pleasent dram for the price and may give him what he needs falling between a Island belter and a sherried Speysider.

To be honest the 17yo blows is away and for the cost I'd always go to the 17yo or 21yo.

12 is chill filtered and caramelled, and a bit underpowered at 40%, the 17 and 21 are not chill filtered, no colour and the extra 6% really makes itself known.

....not one to revist though unless your budget has been badly hit

[David_T]

I sprang for the Dalwhinnie 15 today. Remarkably different from the Talisker 10. The Dalwhinnie is a sweetheart - very smooth and mellow, not as flavorful, but very nice. There is a bit of peat and smoke, more malt and a subtle sweetness in a firm body. The flavors don't shout - they whisper.
Very relaxing dram, and a lovely contrast to the Talisker. Nice to have both on the shelf and have a choice depending on my mood.
The Talisker is like the lass you want to take out on the town, the Dalwhinnie, more like the one you know would make a good wife and mother. Being a romantic, I am hopeful that there is a beauty out there that won’t embarrass me in front of relatives, but will make me blush at home.
This is the beginning of what promises to be a wonderful adventure.

[Brussell]

You may wish to look into samples.
This is something I discovered I have access to very recently, even though my state technically forbids shipment of alcohol to individuals. UPS didn't seem to care about the state laws.

Not to endorse any particular companies, I used Master of Malt this time around. I know some of them may seem expensive for a single drink once you factor in shipping, but to someone like me (recent college graduate) it gives me a chance to experience whiskies that are far out of my price range. It gives me an access to whiskies that i probably dont deserve, and that were distilled decades before i i was born. Experiencing something new and exciting is what this is all about for me. And what's awesome is that I bought a sample of their 50 year for about the same price as a bar in my area would charge for a glass of Glenlivet 25 year.

They also have the standard expressions in samples. These will be useful to me in trying many new whiskies without having to shell out for an entire bottle in a gamble of taste, which is what I did for the first 30 malts I tried, and it cost me over $1000.

Good luck!

[Brussell]

Oh, also, there are plenty of very fine whiskies under 100. Many 18 year olds and even a few 21 year olds sit around the $90-100 range.

Glenfiddich 18 - $85
Glenfiddich 21 - $130
Glenfarclas 21 - $100
Glenfarclas 25 - $145
Highland Park 18 - $95
Highland Park 21 - $150 or so
Glenmorangie 18 - $70-90
Johnnie Walker Gold (blend) - $85
Laphroaig 18 - about $100
Bowmore 15 & 18 - usually under $100 or a bit over.

Many independent bottlings are relatively more affordable, as well. That is a good place to go for more affordable older whiskies. 15 years are also often very good for the price, however I prefer 18-25 years.

[David_T]

My third bottle came home with me today - The Dalmore 12.
It is my clear favorite of the three. Nearly as bold as the Talisker, but not quite as sweet, not nearly as peppery, and far smoother - in fact every bit as smooth as the Dalwhinnie 15.
I'll do more tasting at the ceilidh on Saturday, but it will take a fine whisky indeed to top the Dalmore, IMHO.

[john_b]

Looks like we've started down the road of discovery about the same time. My first was Macallan 12 sherry oak, which was very good to me. Glenfiddich 15 was my next stop; not quite as sweet but good flavors and very enjoyable.

Then I found out about samples from reading this forum and ordered some samples. Of the ones I bought, I've tasted Lagavulin 16 and Ardbeg Corryvreckan. From what I had read, Lagavulin was a "love it or hate it" sort of thing. Well, I must be weird; I didn't love it or hate it. It was very interesting, but the smokiness overwhelmed the rest of the flavors for me at this early stage of very limited experience. Lagavulin will get another visit down the road.

The Ardbeg smokiness was more balanced and allowed other good flavors to come through. I've got samples of Bunnahabhain, Dalmore, Glenfarclas, and a couple of Glenmorangies to go. After that, maybe something from the Lowlands or Campbeltown. So many choices!

[David_T]

Welcome to the adventure. Looks like you're doing it right.

[Islay Peat]

I picked up the Corryvreckan last week and JW Double Black today and really like the Corryvreckan, maybe even more than Uigeadail - maybe.

The Double Black is drinkable enough and I'm going to try it against the Green Label tomorrow night to see which I like more.

[Islay Peat]

Going to a scotch tasting session next month and still hold out hope to finally see Airigh Nam Beist, not to mention the Dalwhinnie and others.

[opelfruit]

Originally Posted by Islay Peat

I picked up the Corryvreckan last week and JW Double Black today and really like the Corryvreckan, maybe even more than Uigeadail - maybe.

The Double Black is drinkable enough and I'm going to try it against the Green Label tomorrow night to see which I like more.

Funny you say that, but I also prefer the Corry to the Uigeadail. I found the uigy good but the Corry just had something more to it, really made me sit back and say "wow". Less sweet up front but seemed to tail off to the sweetness instead.

I found it much more drinkable too, even given the higher abv

Amazing whisky.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by opelfruit

Funny you say that, but I also prefer the Corry to the Uigeadail. I found the uigy good but the Corry just had something more to it, really made me sit back and say "wow". Less sweet up front but seemed to tail off to the sweetness instead.

I found it much more drinkable too, even given the higher abv

Amazing whisky.

I'm still up in the air on it, but it kinda seems like the Corryvreckan is doing to my palate what it seems like the Uigeadail did, so maybe Uigeadail turned up a couple notches higher.

Absolutely standout drink without a doubt.

[David_T]

I had a taste of Glenlivet 12 and Bowmore 12 at the ceilidh this evening. I suppose if either was the only single malt available, I could live with it, but I prefer the Dalmore 12 and Dalwhinnie 15 to either.
The Glenlivet was quite pleasant - slightly sweet and smoother than I expected for its age, but not much more than a pleasant dram. The Bowmore had a nice peppery peat/smoke "kick", but much smoother and tamer than the Talisker 10.
I don't think I'm going to be an Islay peat monster fan. A little is fine - I can take it or leave it - but I prefer it to take a back seat to the malt.
I was hoping that the tasting table would include some Speysiders, but it didn't. I hope to have the opportunity to sample some during the summer Highland Games season.

[Islay Peat]

I had nothing but Bowmore 12 at work the other night and find it quite pleasant, but even though we come from opposites in the spectrum of preference, can definitely agree with you that although I could survive with it as the only available scotch left in the world, would prefer something else.

Really hoping to try the Dalmore 12, and especially the Dalwhinnie 15 at a tasting coming up soon.

[David_T]

Originally Posted by Islay Peat

Really hoping to try the Dalmore 12, and especially the Dalwhinnie 15 at a tasting coming up soon.

My two favorite lassies, for now anyway. I've been dating them on alternating evenings.

My current tasting wish list includes The Dalmore 15, Glenfiddich 15, Glenmorangie Nectar d'Or, Glenfarclas 17, The Macallen 15 Fine Oak and The Balvenie 17 Doublewood.

However, I'm not motivated enough to buy a lot of singles right now. The next tasting event for me will be at the West Virginia Highland Games the first weekend in May. We'll see what they have...

Not on my list, but have you tried Talsiker 18? From the reviews I've read, it sounds like you might like it.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by David_T

My two favorite lassies, for now anyway. I've been dating them on alternating evenings.

My current tasting wish list includes The Dalmore 15, Glenfiddich 15, Glenmorangie Nectar d'Or, Glenfarclas 17, The Macallan 15 Fine Oak and The Balvenie 17 Doublewood.

However, I'm not motivated enough to buy a lot of singles right now. The next tasting event for me will be at the West Virginia Highland Games the first weekend in May. We'll see what they have...

Not on my list, but have you tried Talsiker 18? From the reviews I've read, it sounds like you might like it.

I hope to have a chance at many of the ones you've listed here, if for no other reason than your recommendation, but what I have found is that older bottlings have been outside my preference range up till now.

That said, I'm always a fan of verifying whether I like something or not and your endorsement is not taken lightly, though I will say that my not overly pleasant experience with the Fine Oak 12, not to mention others suggestions to avoid all Fine Oak's has me closer to the sidelines on them in particular.

[David_T]

Ah, well, that one may get dropped from my list based on your experience. I don't mind an oaky note, but it's not my favorite flavor element.
There are many fine fish in the Single Malt Sea.

[opelfruit]

Macallan being more renowned (and much sought after) for it's sherried malts....and the Fine Oak being exclusively Bourbon casks.

Although sherry these days is like holding a stick of dynamite, I'm currently only buying sherry cask stuff from either very old stock or certain distilleries due to the volume of stink in them.

I'm personally not a Macallan man. I know people rave about the stuff but for me I've always felt let down. There is always something better quality at the price range which gives more of what each Macallan expression is trying to do, therefore I never reach for a Mac, but it's competitor.

......it's also up there with Dalmore for distilleries that annoy me for pricing. They seem to always push for the highest price they can get despite (I often find) inferior quality. They seem to think if they inflate their prices they will come across as more exclusive and therefore can demand higher prices.

They want to take a leaf out of BenRiach's/GlenDronach's book.

rant over

[David_T]

Current tasting wish list (in no particular order)...

Glenfarclas 15
Cragganmore 12
Glenmorangie Nectar d'Or
Glenrothes Vintage 1998
The Balvenie 15 Single Barrel
The Dalmore 15
Oban 14
Glenfiddich 15

Nothing over $90 US locally.

I'm hoping to meet at least a couple of these lassies next weekend at the West Virginia Highland Games tasting tent.

[john_b]

Nice list, David! I just tried the Nectar d'Or last weekend and thoroughly enjoyed it.

I've also had the Glenfiddich and Glenfarclas from your list. Both good, but my taste was off the night I tried the Glenfarclas. I'd had pizza earlier and should have known better, eaten something else to clean the palate or just not even tasted any whisky. Initial taste was good, but I couldn't pick up the flavors very well and after about 30 minutes in the glass it seemed like the alcohol overwhelmed the flavors. First time that has happened. I'll revisit that one sometime down the road.

[David_T]

I bid a fond farewell to the Dalmore 12 last night with a healthy and very tasty last toast. It has the distinction of being the first entry on my "would buy and enjoy again" list.
I still have some of the Dalwhinnie 15, and will be off to the shop sometime in the next few days to bring home a shelf-mate for it. I am confident enough at this point, with many thanks to many of you, that I can select a lovely and very enjoyable bottle without tasting it first. I will take my list with me and find the best bargain.
I have also decided to suspend playing "flavor detective" for the time being and just enjoy and savor - rather more like simply listening to a fine concerto as opposed to wading through the sheet music.
I do very much appreciate reading the careful analyses of others with far more experience than I, but I find that the "notes" I detect can vary from dram to dram of the same bottle, and even sometimes from sip to sip. Of course, they are all good notes.

I do have another question. What is the time frame differencing a long finish from a short one?

[john_b]

Originally Posted by David_T

I do have another question. What is the time frame differencing a long finish from a short one?

Sort of along the same line;is "finish" and "aftertaste" the same thing? For example, I could taste the smokiness of Lagavulin 30 minutes after the last sip, but is that still considered part of the finish?

[David_T]

Opened a bottle of Cragganmore 12 a while ago. I like it - a lot.
Balanced, delicate, complex, smooth. A delightful dram indeed.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by David_T

I bid a fond farewell to the Dalmore 12 last night with a healthy and very tasty last toast. It has the distinction of being the first entry on my "would buy and enjoy again" list.
I still have some of the Dalwhinnie 15, and will be off to the shop sometime in the next few days to bring home a shelf-mate for it. I am confident enough at this point, with many thanks to many of you, that I can select a lovely and very enjoyable bottle without tasting it first. I will take my list with me and find the best bargain.
I have also decided to suspend playing "flavor detective" for the time being and just enjoy and savor - rather more like simply listening to a fine concerto as opposed to wading through the sheet music.
I do very much appreciate reading the careful analyses of others with far more experience than I, but I find that the "notes" I detect can vary from dram to dram of the same bottle, and even sometimes from sip to sip. Of course, they are all good notes.

I do have another question. What is the time frame differencing a long finish from a short one?

Very enjoyable read and I sure do hope to find time soon to try both the Dal's in the near future.

For me, a short finish would be anything less than a minute I guess, as opposed to instantly gone, which would be no finish.
Longest finish i can recall was somewhere in the 20 minute range for a Signatory Vintage Port Ellen 25.

Originally Posted by john_b

Sort of along the same line;is "finish" and "aftertaste" the same thing? For example, I could taste the smokiness of Lagavulin 30 minutes after the last sip, but is that still considered part of the finish?

Yes, that's it exactly.
Which Lagavulin was it? I sure do long for some 16.

[john_b]

IP,

It was Lagavulin 16.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by john_b

IP,

It was Lagavulin 16.

One of my favorites, but now I'm having a JW Double Black.

[Brussell]

I know a lot of people aren't huge fans of many of the standard expressions of Diageo's Classic Malts series, but I personally like them as affordable go-to drinks.

Cragganmore 12 and Dalmore 15 are great.
Caol Ila 12 is a very sweet peaty scotch.
Oban 14 is okay, I had it last night and wasnt very impressed. It was a spicy highland without smoke.

I like Glenfarclas but I'm liking sherried whiskies less and less these days. They smell so gross to me now. I had a sample of Glenfarclas 40, and it was great. Sherried whisky without the sulphur is great!

I would do the glenrothes 1994/2010 if you can find it. It's basically the same cost as the 1998 where I live and it's great stuff.

Have you had glenmorangie yet?
I know a lot of people love their malts but I just can't stand them, and not just because every single one I've had has a lot of sulphur. I dislike their whisky because the spirit has a strong rubbing alcohol taste to me. It's really harsh and it makes me think I'm drinking cheap, young whisky. Also, every bottle I've bought the cork disintegrated when opened and ruined the whisky. Plus, like I said, it has the most sulphur I've ever tasted in a whisky brand. And it's not a lack of trying. I've had their Quinta Ruban, Lasanta, 18 ER and the Finealta. The Finealta was the best one I've had, it had the smallest hint of pest I've ever had, which is awesome for me because I'm not a huge fan of peat.

One of my favorites is highland park. It has been rated as one of the best all around whiskies and the 12 year is very affordable for what you're getting. The older expressions have more sherry and sweetness from a longer time in the sherry butt. The 18 is usually rated the best, some places it's $80-90.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by Brussell

Cragganmore 12 and Dalmore 15 are great.
Caol Ila 12 is a very sweet peaty scotch.
Oban 14 is okay, I had it last night and wasnt very impressed. It was a spicy highland without smoke.

Have you had glenmorangie yet?
I know a lot of people love their malts but I just can't stand them, and not just because every single one I've had has a lot of sulphur. I dislike their whisky because the spirit has a strong rubbing alcohol taste to me. It's really harsh and it makes me think I'm drinking cheap, young whisky. Also, every bottle I've bought the cork disintegrated when opened and ruined the whisky. Plus, like I said, it has the most sulphur I've ever tasted in a whisky brand. And it's not a lack of trying. I've had their Quinta Ruban, Lasanta, 18 ER and the Finealta. The Finealta was the best one I've had, it had the smallest hint of pest I've ever had, which is awesome for me because I'm not a huge fan of peat.

One of my favorites is highland park. It has been rated as one of the best all around whiskies and the 12 year is very affordable for what you're getting. The older expressions have more sherry and sweetness from a longer time in the sherry butt. The 18 is usually rated the best, some places it's $80-90.

Dalmore has been on my radar for a while now, and I hope it doesn't startle too much, but I prefer the Bowmore 12 to the Caol Ila 12, while, like you, didn't care much for the Oban 14.

You've got me wanting to try the Glenmorangie's now out of curiosity and I'll be trying Highland Park again soon, which will help determine whether I just wasn't ready for it last fall when I first tried it, or if it too is outside my range of preferences.

[David_T]

Had a dram of Glenlivet 18 last night after a nice dinner out. It was pleasant enough, flavorful, well balanced but not as smooth as Dalwhinnie 15 or even Dalmore 12, and definitely not worth the premium price commanded for a bottle.

[Islay Peat]

Started my night with a glass of Laphroaig 10, then went to work and had a couple glasses of Ardbeg 10. It was a good night.

[David_T]

My lovely and very generous and thoughtful bride slipped me a C-note this afternoon and told me to go get another bottle to enjoy. I came home with two.
Found very good bargains on Balvenie Doublewood 12 and Aberlour 12 at the local State Store.
I haven't cracked the Aberlour yet but the Balvenie is a very fine dram.
Amber, medium body with a lovely, soft but slightly spicy, malty-sweet aroma. Very flavorful. An intensely sweet initial burst quickly gives way to a lovely balance of sherry, citrus and malty mouth-filling goodness with subtle undertones of peat and smoke. The slight burn is pleasant and smooth. The finish fades into a mellow, slightly smoky dark chocolate that lasts a long time.
I could alternate this with Dalwhinnie 15 and be very happy, although I would occasionally miss the Dalmore.

On Saturday, she also presented me with a Glencairn glass and a copy of Kevin Erskine's Instant Expert's Guide to Single Malt Scotch. It's a short book, but packed full of info very interesting and useful to a newbie like myself.

I think I'll keep her.

[Son-o'-the-Sod(?)]

Originally Posted by David_T

My lovely and very generous and thoughtful bride slipped me a C-note this afternoon and told me to go get another bottle to enjoy. I came home with two.
Found very good bargains on Balvenie Doublewood 12 and Aberlour 12 at the local State Store.
I haven't cracked the Aberlour yet but the Balvenie is a very fine dram.
Amber, medium body with a lovely, soft but slightly spicy, malty-sweet aroma. Very flavorful. An intensely sweet initial burst quickly gives way to a lovely balance of sherry, citrus and malty mouth-filling goodness with subtle undertones of peat and smoke. The slight burn is pleasant and smooth. The finish fades into a mellow, slightly smoky dark chocolate that lasts a long time.
I could alternate this with Dalwhinnie 15 and be very happy, although I would occasionally miss the Dalmore.

On Saturday, she also presented me with a Glencairn glass and a copy of Kevin Erskine's Instant Expert's Guide to Single Malt Scotch. It's a short book, but packed full of info very interesting and useful to a newbie like myself.

I think I'll keep her.

I want a wife like yours!!

[David_T]

Slid the cork out of the Aberlour this evening. Another very enjoyable dram. Aside from the Talisker and Bowmore, it is the least sweet of the malts I have so far tried, but far from briny or dry. Full-bodied, malty, smoky, slightly nutty with a bit of tart citrus. Very nicely balanced. Short, but tasty and pleasantly warming finish.

I'm quickly finding my preferred flavor niche - Highlanders and Speysides, 12 to 15 years old, with a little peat and/or smoke. Fortunately for me, there are many fine offerings with significant variations in taste meeting these criteria in the $50-65 range at my local store. I see absolutely no need to spend more on a bottle, nor to order by mail or online. (Nor am I criticizing those who do.)

With four fine whiskies currently on my shelf (Aberlour 12, Balvenie Doublewood 12, Cragganmore 12 and Dalwhinnie 15), I can effortlessly choose the perfect dram to suit my mood. I'll need to replace the Dalwhinnie soon - it's almost gone - but won't be buying any more untried bottles anytime soon. I'm a very happy camper, at least for now.

Of course, I'd be very pleased to PM my address to anyone who'd like to send me a Dalmore 15 or a Nectar D'or.

[Jojo]

David T - Two of my favorites...Dalmore 15 -and- Nectar D'or!

[David_T]

Picked up a copy of Whiskey Classified, Choosing Single Malts by Flavour by David Wishart. Excellent read, and highly recommended for newbies. A much more comprehensive treatment of the subject than Kevin Erskine's fine synopsis.
I especially like the fact that he profiles the most popular offering from each of most of the distilleries - meaning, in most cases an affordable bottle.
This book is slick, well-written and illustrated, and should be a shelf standard for single malt whisky-philes. (My next reading purchase will be Michael Jackson's tome.)