Batch Differences - One Good, Others Not So Good

[Islay Peat]

Original post:
I've had Glenfiddich 12 on a handful of occasions so far and have only in one instance thought of it as palatable for my tastes. That one particular bottle has tasted good every time, but others have only been drinkable, but not enjoyable for me.

The particular bottle of Glenfiddich 12 that I liked is older, possibly 15 years or more, and if I remember rightly, the label and packaging are different from they are now.

So the differences I'm noticing, are they more likely to be due to batch variations, or has Glenfiddich had a general change in the distillation process that accounts for my liking one bottle, but not another?

Thread update:
I just got to look at the bottle in question again and only now realize that my mistake was in assuming it was standard Glenfiddich 12 while it is actually Glenfiddich Special Old Reserve, and it still tastes very nice.

Sorry for the confusion and at very least I now understand why it tasted differently from the bottle of 12 I'd purchased.

[Islay Peat]

No one with any knowledge/opinion on the matter?

Still getting used to the world of whisky and trying to understand what would make one drink taste heavenly from one bottle and not another and if there are general changes made at distilleries from time to time that change the inherent nature of their primary product.

[505Gibbs]

Originally Posted by Islay Peat

No one with any knowledge/opinion on the matter?

Still getting used to the world of whisky and trying to understand what would make one drink taste heavenly from one bottle and not another and if there are general changes made at distilleries from time to time that change the inherent nature of their primary product.

Everyone has an opinion and here's mine:
The distillery's 'master blender' is responsible for producing a consistant product. Sampling many casks and choosing those that when they are mixed/blended produce the consistent product like they have bottled in the past under a given 'name' i.e. 12 yr old Glenfiddich. The same would be true if it were Jack Daniels Black label.
True single cask bottlings could vary depending on the quality of the cask or casks involved.
I don't think a distllery, in this case Glenfiddich, would tamper with the method of distillation from batch to batch - just my $0.02!
I'm curious about the 12 yr that tasted like a 15yr or older?
The 15yr Glenfiddich Solera Reserve, if its this one, has usually received fairly high praise - its one I really enjoy. An additional item to remember is that the age i.e. 12 yr or 15 yr is the youngest age of a cask used in the blend not necessarily the age of all the casks.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by 505Gibbs

Everyone has an opinion and here's mine:
The distillery's 'master blender' is responsible for producing a consistant product. Sampling many casks and choosing those that when they are mixed/blended produce the consistent product like they have bottled in the past under a given 'name' i.e. 12 yr old Glenfiddich. The same would be true if it were Jack Daniels Black label.
True single cask bottlings could vary depending on the quality of the cask or casks involved.
I don't think a distllery, in this case Glenfiddich, would tamper with the method of distillation from batch to batch - just my $0.02!
I'm curious about the 12 yr that tasted like a 15yr or older?
The 15yr Glenfiddich Solera Reserve, if its this one, has usually received fairly high praise - its one I really enjoy. An additional item to remember is that the age i.e. 12 yr or 15 yr is the youngest age of a cask used in the blend not necessarily the age of all the casks.

Thanks for the excellent reply and I guess it then goes that when a master blender retires then the next one may end up making choices, for any number of reasons, which may or may not affect the overall flavor of a whisky.

I don't know what that one bottle of Glenfiddich 12 tastes like other than I was surprised to like it so well when every other experience had taught me that I didn't care for it. I do think that particular bottle is over 15 years old due to the time frame of my friends death and the different appearance of the box and label. I know none of that should affect the flavor, which is why I became curious as to what else could explain the difference in flavor.

[505Gibbs]

Originally Posted by Islay Peat

Thanks for the excellent reply and I guess it then goes that when a master blender retires then the next one may end up making choices, for any number of reasons, which may or may not affect the overall flavor of a whisky.

I don't know what that one bottle of Glenfiddich 12 tastes like other than I was surprised to like it so well when every other experience had taught me that I didn't care for it. I do think that particular bottle is over 15 years old due to the time frame of my friends death and the different appearance of the box and label. I know none of that should affect the flavor, which is why I became curious as to what else could explain the difference in flavor.

There are certain changes in the labeling, usually subtle, that might occur over time for a given product.
The 'older' 12 yr that your friend had - what were the storage conditions, was the bottle exposed to sunlight for a period of time[direct sun], what was the level in the bottle[oxidation], was the bottle kept on its side exposed to the cork? All of these can have an effect on the spirit.
One other thought - when distillery's blender retires or unfortunately passes away his or her sucessor has most likely been an 'apprentice' if you will and has or should have a pretty damn good idea what a particular 'blend' should taste like to the buying public. The last thing a distillery would want is a 'off' blend that would alienate their buyers.

[Islay Peat]

The bottle in question was in a storage cupboard and standing upright at more than 3/4 full.

Can't wait to see it again and get some pics, as it would be nice to see if Jojo can date the bottle and box.

[blenderm]

The "apprentice" will most likely have been working with the blender for at least 15 years and most likely in charge of day to day quality for at least 4 or 5 years prior to his retirement. I'd hazard that the difference is not with the original bottling but how it's been stored at the retail outlet as has expressed before.
If you really think there's a problem then contact the distillery with the complaint and they'll advise how to get it returned to the local importer and thence back to them for examination.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by blenderm

The "apprentice" will most likely have been working with the blender for at least 15 years and most likely in charge of day to day quality for at least 4 or 5 years prior to his retirement. I'd hazard that the difference is not with the original bottling but how it's been stored at the retail outlet as has expressed before.
If you really think there's a problem then contact the distillery with the complaint and they'll advise how to get it returned to the local importer and thence back to them for examination.

You've completely misread my posts and done a bit too much of reading between the lines.
Grateful for some of your helpful posts, but please refrain from posting non-pertinent content.
The first mention of a complaint against the distillery or any seller in this entire thread has been manufactured in your post and it is not helpful to turn a curiosity based thread into a complaint against the brand.

[blenderm]

The Grants Malt Master work quite hard to maintain a single flavour profile for each of their malts and would be unhappy to think that their drinkers were picking up differences in batches and always like feedback whether pro or con.
Your original post alludes to there being batch differences and to my mind that is a complaint, the definition of which is "the expression of discontent, regret or censure" which is what you express.

[Islay Peat]

I'm sure the difference in flavor must be due to having been open for a number of years, but since I'd already determined that I didn't care for Glenfiddich 12, I'm quite happy to have gotten lucky with this one bottle - maybe I should drink it quickly before anything goes wrong with it next.

[IslayAddict]

I try not to comment on a bottle until I've tasted at least a 3rd of the bottle and over a period of many days. Each day I have a drink, it tastes a bit different, but there are consistencies which I can attribute to each brand after I've had a good bit of it many times and over a period of a long time. With whisky, it seems like my 1st impression is always wrong. The ones I liked at the 1st drink, I ended up not liking that much later on. And the ones I didn't care much for in the beginning, ended up being my favorites.

The only exeption is Talisker 10. The taste is so bad and so lingering, that I'm actually scared to try it again. Its like a bad perfume that I can't wash off. So, I don't know if I just don't like Taliskers or if its a bad bottle. With the rep Talisker has, it might be the way its supposed to taste. My friend agrees. Neither of us want anything to do with it. I have no idea what to do with that bottle. Maybe I'll try it again when I have a cold

[Islay Peat]

Thread update:
I just got to look at the bottle in question again and only now realize that my mistake was in assuming it was standard Glenfiddich 12 while it is actually Glenfiddich Special Old Reserve, and it still tastes very nice.

Sorry for the confusion and at very least I now understand why it tasted differently from the bottle of 12 I'd purchased.

[Islay Peat]

Originally Posted by IslayAddict

I try not to comment on a bottle until I've tasted at least a 3rd of the bottle and over a period of many days. Each day I have a drink, it tastes a bit different, but there are consistencies which I can attribute to each brand after I've had a good bit of it many times and over a period of a long time. With whisky, it seems like my 1st impression is always wrong. The ones I liked at the 1st drink, I ended up not liking that much later on. And the ones I didn't care much for in the beginning, ended up being my favorites.

The only exception is Talisker 10. The taste is so bad and so lingering, that I'm actually scared to try it again. Its like a bad perfume that I can't wash off. So, I don't know if I just don't like Taliskers or if its a bad bottle. With the rep Talisker has, it might be the way its supposed to taste. My friend agrees. Neither of us want anything to do with it. I have no idea what to do with that bottle. Maybe I'll try it again when I have a cold

Don't know how I missed your post, but I have found the same thing about not judging a drink in one sitting alone, unless it's inarguably good or bad.

Funny though that you should mention one of the highest rated whiskies that I have not been able to enjoy in the Talisker 10. I just don't like it and after having tried it a couple times have only one more chance to give it.

Glenfiddich Special Old Reserve is another story altogether and I'll always make sure to differentiate between it and the 12.

[jwise]

Haha! I'm glad you got this all sorted out!

There are slight differences between batches, which is easier to notice over a prolonged time period, not just two bottles on a shelf. Some distilleries embrace it, and don't necessarily try to exactly imitate prior offerings, instead turn to numbering the batches and creating some marketing within the expression (Aberlour A'Bunadh, for example). However, most expressions within a brand are remarkably consistent over time.

Another issue that came up is how long the bottle had been open. Like it or not, alcohol evaporates, and when it does, the whisky mellows out and changes the profile of the dram. I have seen this on a number of occasions where a bottle was opened and nursed on for years.

[Islay Peat]

Have you had any of this yourself? I'm glad to have found a Glenfiddich that I do like, after having not enjoyed the 12, and will be curious to see if I like it from a bottle that hasn't sat opened for so long.

It was an inheritance of sorts and apparently the original owners favorite expression, but had sat in a cool, dark cupboard for years before being offered to me. I really like it, and the tin that it came in is a bonus to look at while having a sip.

[jwise]

No, I'm afraid not. I have had the 12, 15, and 18yr expressions from Glenfiddich. I didn't care for the 12, the 15 was alright, and I spit out the 18. Couldn't stand it. It had a dry, tartness to it that I just couldn't wash out of my mouth. It was really foul.

However, being the good Scotch drinker that I am, I tried it again about a year later. Spit it out, again... Still foul.

I don't think I'll be reaching for another 'fiddich on purpose. At least, not on my dime.

[Islay Peat]

Oh well, at least I like this bottle, and I suppose that since we have some differences in taste, maybe it's still good that I go ahead and give them a try.

I have noticed right from the start however that most older bottlings don't appeal to my palate, just as the younger ones are too harsh, the older ones seem too smooth.

Just had a sip of the Special Old Reserve and it's for sure - I like it, but not the 12.

[bkblankenship]

We all must keep in mind that computers do not control most of the whisky making processes in Scotland, but only lend a hand.

The human touch is ever-present.

Batch differences of course depend on scores of things, but the true crafting of the whisky run is controlled by the stillman. One stillmen may heart-cut his run different from an associate stillman even though they have procedures to run by.

There may be others but the only distillery that I know of that uses computers solely in the whisky making process is Glenburgie.

The only "computer" at Springbank is a chalkboard.

Batches DO differ as a result of the human touch. And that's a good thing.

The human touch is what gives us all some of the one-off fabulous whiskies that shine above all others. Batch differences can be a good thing.

As Glenfiddich has been used in previous postings as an example, I find that the complexities in Glenfiddich whiskies improve with age and that their young whiskies leave a lot to be desired. This could be the reverse with other distilleries.

[Islay Peat]

Did you read any of the updates in this thread?

I mistook the bottle of Glenfiddich Special Old Reserve for the 12, so the tack of the thread has taken a bit of a turn, as what I perceived to be two totally different whiskies, was in fact, two totally different whiskies.

[bkblankenship]

Before the 12-year-old age statement hit the shelves, the Special Old Reserve with NAS ( No age statement ) was an 8-year-old. You are correct, they are two different whiskies. Also, at one time, Glenfiddich also stated the age as an 8-year-old on the label.

[Islay Peat]

That's an interesting bit - I like this one quite a bit, but don't care at all for the 12.

Had a glass last night again after posting on it again, and while I don't know if I'll look to buy it in the future, it's definitely enjoyable.